Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Gareth's avatar

Whatever the merits of Heath’s explanation, I think he is right in his observation: between 1985 and 1995 there was a massive decline in the prestige of Marxism in analytical political philosophy, which paralleled what was happening in most other academic disciplines where it had a foothold. I think it is also fair to illustrate this with the difference in preoccupation between the Cohen of KMTH or Habermas of Legitimation Crisis and the Cohen/Habermas of the 1990s, with the hyper engagement with the correct normative principle of justice.

I don’t think it is particularly sensible to explain this development based on rational, immanent developments in the spheres of academic research. Broader social forces made class and socialism passé and gave rise to a “post-materialist” moralism on the left. This story is mostly told in terms of feminism or post-modernism but the obsession with analytical theories of justice fits as well.

Expand full comment
Shawn Ruby's avatar

I thought the problem he brought up assumed liberalism as a standard for Marxism. I get you see it differently with a "facts/value" distinction but assume for me a second that it's not. You can't measure marxian axiology, in a broader sense than ltv, by reverting to an individual standard. I'm not saying Marx denies individuals but it's clearly not the main focus of Marxism so much as labor relations. Obviously the two diverge somewhere even if only to the degree that Marxism takes it as a specific stage rather than their conception of a whole picture so even to a Marxist I can't see how that can be a standard for Marxism or even why it'd be convincing.

Also, a lot, if not all, even definition 1, of your definitions of liberalism can probably be made equivalent or at least different parts or facets of the same thing. Liberalism dogmatically assumes it is dealing with the base concept of a human as a choosing, willing thing. This is a very non-biological conception of a human and any biological conceptions of human rights are aresonantly attached to the 17/18th century conception of a human. That and politics is rather liberal democracy instead of other democracies.

The facts/value distinction I think is off though and even more so assumes a liberal conception of reality. It almost in itself implies some type of solipsism. In order to know a value, one must know facts about a thing. If you consider it a category error by conflating knowledge of a thing with a fact of a thing then you're stuck with the same issue for values as the "value" doesn't refer to the object but the person separate from the object. That distinction assumes a separate dimension of an individual is a part of the object necessarily rather than the object having a value in and of itself. If we think of values outside sociology, like in scientific terms, we have to deal with the value of the object in and of itself. This could be medicines for example. You're simply never in your life going to assert an individual value participates with a value of medication and to the degree a human does value medication, we all the sudden havethe same standard any medical scientist does. In that sense facts are equivalent with values. Similarly in strong enough ethical systems, like ones in religions, the facts very simply are the value. Religions are strong enough to include complete behavior models for facts where medicines won't so there's obviously a distinction but there's a bridge either way.

Expand full comment
11 more comments...

No posts